Match Making in Clare using autosomal DNA and Y-DNA
5:00 p.m. Sunday 22 October 2017
Shelbourne Hall, Royal Dublin
A video recording of this
presentation is available in the
Ireland facebook group which all are welcome to join.
Making in Lisdoonvarna, County Clare
- Over 60,000 people from all over the world come to the Lisdoonvarna
Matchmaking Festival in County Clare every September and
October "to have fun, party and find the love".
- Thousands of people from all over the world come to County
Clare at least once in search of their Clare roots.
- Matchmaker Willie Daly has his ‘office’ in
the Matchmaker Bar in Lisdoonvarna.
- The Clare Roots DNA project has its
`office' in the Stella
Maris Hotel bar in Kilkee where we meet and greet people
and/or paper research suggests that they have Clare roots, and
introduce them to their long lost known cousins and DNA matches:
- (see below
for DNA match between the two groups)
- Cardboard Willie Daly with a
- The real Willie Daly with the same
- Tommy is also an FTDNA client (courtesy of his 4th cousin
in New Zealand) and a GEDmatch user.
- His top match was an adoptee who had been on GEDmatch for
only 8 weeks before him.
- Within a couple of hours, I had identified her birth
parents, who had married some time after putting her up for adoption.
- Willie Daly may not be a miracle worker, but GEDmatch is.
marriages and shotgun weddings
- Genealogists soon learn that in previous centuries
Clare, throughout Ireland, and elsewhere, marriage was always an
than a romantic
- Up to the mid-twentieth century, most marriages in rural
were arranged, in Shrovetide (Nollaig na mBan to Shrove Tuesday).
- Some brides were pregnant when they married.
- Some were even pregnant by their husbands.
- marriage Jan 1908 Clare; first son born Jun
husband's greatnephew and first son's son have different Y-DNA
haplogroups (I and R); 2C1Rs
share no autosomal DNA
- marriage QI 1943 England; first child registered QII
first child's child only a half-nephew to younger children
- marriage QIV 1955 Dublin; first child registered
QI 1956; DNA
for inheritance from supposed paternal half-sibling showed no
- droit du seigneur/jus primae noctis
- Ridire na mBan
- Neighbours married neighbours
- Killard to Cloghaun Beg (East)
- About 8 miles apart
- Gianpiero Cavalleri earlier today showed a chart by Jim
Wilson of distance between spouse birthplaces for all British marriages
- Irish spouses were probably less mobile
- About 80% of British couples were born within 4 miles
of each other, and only about 10% over 8 miles apart.
- The Clancy Brothers:
- Thomas of Killard, d. 1 Jul 1898 aged 87, eight
children with his wife Honora Nolan of Cloghaun Beg (East)
- George of Killard, d. 1 Apr 1871 aged 50 or 52, nine
children with his wife Mary Galvin of Glascloon
- Michael of Killard, alive 1901 aged 73, fifteen
children with his wife Ellen Sexton of Killard
- Henry of Killard, d. 24 Dec 1897 aged 67, eleven
children with his wife Honora Marrinan of Cloghaun Beg (East)
- Honora Nolan's greatgreatnephew showed up in the middle
Storm Ophelia last Monday as an AncestryDNA match (28.3 centimorgans
shared across 3 DNA segments) to Honora Marrinan's greatgreatnephew
(and also as a more distant match to myself)
- In 1855, Michael Nolan was in no. 3 and Michael Marrinan
in no. 2 in Griffith's
Valuation (Ryan Tubridy's GGGgrandfather lived in no. 6 and
also occupied no. 5 and no. 7)
- Nolans and Marrinans still live in these locations today.
- A manuscript
Marrinan pedigree turned up in Jul 2017 showing Honora's
mother as an O'Brien.
- Different user-submitted online family trees
show the mother of Honora's brother Timothy (who inherited the farm in
Cloghaun Beg (East) and d. 10 Jan 1889) as Anna Maroney or Mary Ann Mahoney.
- DNA evidence has long since cast doubt on their being any
close relationship between the authors of these online trees and the
Marrinans of Cloghaun Beg (East).
- Mrs Nolan is buried in Kilmihil:
IHS Here lie the remains of Ellen Nolan alias
O'Brien who depd this life Feb 15th 1855 aged 64 yrs Erected by her
beloved husband Mr. Michael Nolan, Clohanbeg for her and posterity
- Mrs Marrinan's grave has not been found.
- Research of all sorts is about spotting obvious patterns
and surprising trends in data.
- Data-mining is digging in large quantities of data (such
as DNA provides) for patterns that are not obviousl
- A pattern is starting to emerge here:
- Were the two next-door neighbours (whose
sons-in-law were brothers) themselves related?
- Maybe O'Brien sisters?
- Sisters who possibly even called their daughters Honora
- So that the new DNA matches are fourth cousins,
consistent with the amount of DNA that they share?
- What else can DNA tell us?
- Mrs. Nolan (RIN 12422) has three
descendants in the DNA databases,
one already at GEDmatch, with the new one to be uploaded tomorrow.
- Mrs. Marrinan (RIN 113913) has
sixteen descendants in the DNA
databases (plus the grandson of one), seven of them at GEDmatch.
- If they were sisters, then the Nolan descendant would be
4C1R to the Marrinan descendants, with 50% or less chance of sharing
detectable amounts of DNA.
- The autosomal
matrix is further strong circumstantial evidence of the
- The Nolan descendants already in the DNA databases are
not in a position to inherit X-DNA from Mrs. Nolan.
- But one of the Marrinan descendants already in the DNA
databases gets his mitochondrial DNA down the all-female matrilineal
line from Mrs. Marrinan.
- Guess who will be using my free test sponsored by FTDNA
for this talk?
- Three Chicago-born sisters descended down the all-female
matrilineal line from Mrs. Nolan left a total of twenty children, who owe me a favour.
- I am appealing to them to club together and order mtFull
Sequence for one of them.
- Cindy's tree has another
speculative child for Mrs. Marrinan - Mary m. Carrig.
- Mrs. Carrig's matrilineal greatgrandson is already
- Let's add him to the autosomal matrix
- speculating that he is 3C and 3C1R to the Marrinan/O'Brien
descendants and 4C to the Nolan/O'Brien descendant, in which case he
would be expected to share four times as much autosomal DNA with the
Marrinan/O'Brien descendants as the Nolan/O'Brien descendant does.
- Could Mrs. Carrig have been from the only other Marrinan
family in the parish? See third worksheet in Excel workbook.
- Jim Palmer, a
hall of fame baseball player,
is adopted and matches me (6.0 centimorgans shared across 1 DNA
and one of the Marrinans of Cloghaun Beg (East) (65 centimorgans shared
across 5 DNA segments)
- He took his surname from his adoptive mother's second
- Fishing in all the gene pools:
- closest match 273 centimorgans shared across
14 DNA segments
- Table of probabilities predicts
1C1R (20%) or 2C (60%) or 2C1R (20%)
- GEDmatch: closest match (same person) 290.8 Total cM 54.7
- closest match (2C1R to top AncestryDNA/GEDmatch match)
5.0% (358.9 cM) Shared DNA; 12 Shared segments; 84cM Largest segment
- Table of probabilities predicts
1C1R (59%) or 2C (40%) or 2C1R (1%)
- There is anecdotal evidence of false negatives at this
level, so could this be a false positive?
- Five descendants of Thomas Moroney and Mary O'Dea (who
married about 1850) in the
top 16 AncestryDNA matches.
- Maroney thought to be his birth father's surname pending
arrival of Y-DNA111 results.
- GEDmatch put the cat amongst the pigeons.
- 41.7cM on the X-chromosome shared with one of the female
descendants (so there must (also?) be a Moroney connection on his
- no X-chromosome shared with her sister (so the shared X-DNA
must come from their mother).
- AncestryDNA would like its customers left in the dark about
obvious facts like this.
- "Are your parents related?" at GEDmatch.com shows no
evidence of a relationship.
- But there is a NYC birth index entry for a Maroney child
with the relevant birthdate (mother soundex K530).
- And there is a Moroney female in the right area of the
family tree married to a Kennedy male according to a user-submitted
- Work in progress ...
- ... but his wife is addicted already:
It's official DNA is my cocaine. I've got to have
degrees of separation
- I've never believed in the "six degrees of separation"
- Tom from Maine and Maria from England both have
homes in Kilkee where their ancestors lived.
- They arranged to meet in the Stella Maris Hotel to discuss
long half-identical region:
20 2,171,481 44,695,165 60.7 6,677 Tom/Maria
- No common surname between their Kilkee greatgrandparents
and no other common geography, so almost certainly no closer than 4th
- Probability of no crossover in in ten randomly selected
recombination events in 60.7cM is 0.2%.
- But we have picked this half-identical region out
of the extreme tail of the probability distribution.
- Is this just data-mining?
- I ran a matching segment search and looked for people with
whom they triangulated:
20 2,171,481 44,695,165 60.7 6,677 Tom/Maria
20 15,304,533 22,975,413 12.8 1,545 Pete/Tom
20 15,410,611 20,690,129 10.9 1,328 Maria/Pete
- Five minutes later, Pete from Cincinnati walked past
have we learned from these examples?
Genealogists compile family histories by matching up three categories
- the oral traditions passed down through the generations;
- the archival sources used by traditional genealogists; and
- the DNA evidence that often reconciles both, but sometimes
refutes either or both (NPE).
Y-DNA of those claiming Clare ancestry
- 837 members of the Clare Roots project as of 20 Oct
- Y-DNA STR results for 317 men in
- Their County Clare ancestry is not necessarily in the
- Assigning men to haplogroups is much an art as a science.
- Breakdown of top-level haplogroups:
- Breakdown within haplogroup R
- Slightly higher percentage of R1b (86%) than in the Ireland yDNA Project (81%) as
reported by Margaret Jordan earlier today.
- Breakdown within haplogroup R1b
- Breakdown within haplogroup R-P312
- Breakdown within haplogroup R-L21
|| Dalcassian/Irish Type III
|| NW Irish/Irish Type I
|| South Irish/Irish Type II
|| Munster Type I
- Surnames with multiple origins:
- Brennan (one I, one R1b)
- Brown (one I, two R1b)
- Clancy (one R1a, four R-L226, two
- Corcoran (two I, one R-L513, one R-M222)
- Crow(e) (two R-Z253, three R-L226)
- Crowley (one I, one R-M222, one R-CTS4466)
- Egan (two R-DF27, one R-L226, one R-M222)
- Fitzgerald (one R-L226, one R-CTS4466)
- Hannan (R-M222)/Hannon (R-L226)
- Hanrahan (one R-L513, one R-L1336, one R-L226)
- Kell(e)y (one I, one R-L21, three R-L226, one R-Z253, one
R-L513, one R-BY3439)
- Kitson (one Q, one R-L513)
- Leyden (one R-DF21, two R-M222)
- Lynch (one R-Z16250, one R-L226)
- Madden (two R-Z253, one R-BY3440)
- Maloney (one I, one R-M222)
- Mc Mahon/McMahon (one I, one R-L226, three R-Z255, one
- McNamara (one R-M269, one R-M222, five R-L226)
- Mitchell (one G, one R-M222)
- Murray (one R-L513, one R-M222)
- O'Brien (one R-L21, one R-CTS4466, one R-L1336, nine
- O'Day/O'Dea/O Dea (one E, five
R-L226, three R-P312)
- O'Neil(l) (one R-L1336, one R-Z253, two elsewhere in R,
- Quinn (one I, one R1b)
- Roche (one E, one R-P312, one R-U106)
- Sullivan (one I, one R-Z253)
- Well-represented surnames with a single origin:
- Corry/Curry (four R-L226)
- Cusack (five R-L226)
- Malican/Melican/Milliken (five R-A15201)
- Marinan/Marnen/Marrinan (six R-BY19488, no shared paper
- O'Shea (six R-L513, five of them known or assumed